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Hosted by Andrew Lewis, Managing Director at TRA – The Research Agency, the FRAME podcast explores some of the latest findings from the world of research.
Each episode features thought leaders representing different human science disciplines. By layering their unique perspectives, Andrew searches for new truths in the data. The uncommon truths.
Our shared interests are evolving to become a bigger part of how we seek belonging and acceptance in today’s world. So, with this being the case, how do brands go about the job of connecting into communities of shared interest without looking like an outsider? And what does this mean for the practice of marketing? In this episode, Andrew Lewis is joined by Lindsey Horne, Behavioural Insights Director and Laura Mulcahy, Head of Cultural Practice.
Andrew: We know human connection is changing. Our shared interests are evolving to become a bigger part of how we seek belonging and acceptance in today's world. So with this being the case, how do brands go about the job of connecting into communities of shared interest without looking like an outsider? What does this mean for the practice of marketing?
Hello and welcome to FRAME, a podcast dedicated to the art of knowing people. I'm your host, Andrew Lewis, Managing Director at TRA, The Research Agency, and each week, we'll be exploring the theme of connection with leaders representing different human science disciplines. By layering their unique perspectives, we'll search for the truths others don't – the uncommon truths.
Andrew: In this episode, we look at what behavioural science and cultural insight tell us about how brands can signal connection to their audience's interests, and how they can find relevance without being ostracised. I'm joined in the studio today by Lindsey Horn, Behavioural Insights Director, and Laura Mulcahy, Head of Cultural Practice at TRA. Hello to you both.
Andrew: During the last two episodes, we've been unpacking the findings of our latest research into human connection, particularly what this work tells us about the importance of shared interests and how we seek to connect. Today, we're discussing how brands can look like an insider when entering new communities or groups. Lindsey, from a behavioural science point of view, what did you notice about the findings? What grabbed your attention?
Lindsey: Yeah, one of the things that was most interesting to me is that our friends and family are groups we feel inherently connected to. Beyond that, the next significant connection was with shared interest groups, which makes a lot of sense. This made me think about the role of in-group and out-group dynamics, and the science behind how groups are formed. This is a large part of behavioural science and can have big repercussions.
We feel strongly connected to these in-groups, or groups we have positive affiliations with, and there are many benefits to being part of a group. However, on the flip side, if you're looking at an out-group, or a group you're not connected with, or an organisation that's not in your group, the connection is not as strong. This is really interesting for brands to understand, as they can look at these in-group and out-group dynamics and figure out how to be part of the group.
So, yeah, that sense of belonging is super important. You can see how strong it is for people when they don't adhere to the group norms or feel like they're not part of the group.
Andrew: And that same set of rules plays out for brands then too, doesn't it, Lindsey?
Lindsey: It really does. And you can kind of see the connections there. The rules are often based on how the group has formed, and a big part of it is tapping into that sense of belonging, that sense of affiliation and connection to others. Proximity is a big part of it. People often join groups that they're physically close to, and while location is a factor, a large part of it is those shared interests and shared affiliations. It's an important connection.
So, if you're thinking about the rules that brands need to follow and you look at social comparison within a group, it's crucial that you're bolstering people up and not creating opportunities where people can look silly in front of other members. That's important because you don't want anyone to feel like the only one in their uniform. You want to create positive social comparison if you're going to go down that route.
Lastly, another important rule is the context or situation. You can have people that are well bonded, but if the context or setting they're meeting in isn't conducive to forming those connections, we see a big drop in members. This could be the actual meeting place, but sometimes we see it with changes or updates to an online platform as well.
Andrew: So, interest groups are becoming a bigger part of how we seek to connect and find our place in the world. This means it's becoming increasingly important for brands to understand these groups if they want to find a place of relevance with people. The stakes are getting higher for brands, aren't they? If we're connecting more through these interest groups and there are strong in-group and out-group dynamics at play, a brand that's not in the in-group faces a lot of potential negative bias.
Therefore, it's becoming more important to understand the rules of groups, why people join them, and what they want to get out of being in a group. As you said, Lindsey, it's about adding value to oneself, feeling like you have a place, improving your social comparison, and finding information.
So, what should brands be looking at? What's important?
Lindsey: Yeah, it's such a good question. I think when brands are trying to get it right, they should really look at why people are joining these groups in the first place and then enhance that for people. That's a very positive space to play in. As I was saying, the primary reason people join a group is for affiliation, for that connection and bonding. If brands and organisations can create more opportunities for these bonding experiences, that's an amazing place to be.
Reciprocity is another factor that enhances affiliation and bonding. Offering opportunities that reinforce positive connections between people is essential. Additionally, people join interest groups not only because they're interested in them but also when they need support or information. Think about women's health groups, new parents coming together for their first child, or gaming groups looking for the next code or way to pass a level. They join these groups for bonding and connection but also for that extra support and help.
Brands should consider how they can provide information and support or make it easier for people to access. This might involve categorising information or presenting it in a way that's easy to access and understand. It's a great space for a brand to be in, positioning themselves as a supporter and offering something useful. If the brand is an authority in that space, it can add even more value.
Andrew: So, if a brand wants to work as an insider in some groups, it must think about what it's adding in terms of value to the group. There are two avenues for that: either enhancing affiliation and bonding or enhancing some sort of information and support role. It's not just about getting the look and feel of the group right, understanding the language, satirical choices, and in-code behaviours. It's about playing a role and doing something super useful for that group environment.
Lindsey: Yeah, 100%, especially when you think about the social hierarchy and dynamics. That's a really nice place for a brand to play, because they're not coming in at the top as an authority that's dictating the group. They're kind of coming in at that supporter and connector level as well.
Andrew: That's interesting, too. When you think about groups and how they form and how people join them, they don't just leap straight into being at the top, right? I guess a brand shouldn't expect to do that either. There’s a period of engagement and members sussing each other out.
Lindsey: Yeah, and you don't want to overstep the mark and come in too hot at the top. You want to come in and play that supporter role first, and, as you said, have that basic understanding of the language and social cues before you settle into your role.
Andrew: Okay, so that's great advice. A good way in for a brand is to think about playing useful roles around promoting affiliation and bonding in the group, or providing information and support. Instead of trying to be the top dog, the brand should look to play a supporter role, helping to mesh the group and add something of value.
Laura: I think information is such a good point, Lindsey. Often, when we're trying to find shortcuts to finding our people, we're also trying to find shortcuts for other things. We don't want to do the research or think about what to get because we're overwhelmed with options and information. If we can talk to someone who has already gone down that path, then great, we don't have to think about it. One less thing to worry about.
Lindsey: Yeah, that's so true, Laura. We really look to other people during times of uncertainty. Finding other people is great for connection, but also, like you say, a shortcut to information as well.
Andrew: So that's a bit about group dynamics. Let's talk about the groups themselves. Laura, where do we see these kinds of groups forming? We know that shared interest groups are becoming more important in our lives. Where are you seeing them, and how can brands identify them?
Laura: Yeah, with the qual survey, the big interest categories that come to mind are sport, news, media, fashion and beauty, music, and comedy. These are things we naturally gravitate towards and want to lean into. We know how big sport is in our culture, and from our survey, something like over 60% of people feel some kind of connection to a sports team. So, sport is important. But that's not necessarily new news. There's so much about sport that brings us together and connects us, but that doesn't leave much room for unpacking it further.
We should consider what it is about sport, beauty, or fashion that resonates with people. When we laid out these echo-systems, which were people's responses about what accounts they followed and why, we saw many different strands and interconnections within these categories. It was a good reminder that people are complex. I'm not just Laura, the Collingwood Football fan. That's not all I do in life. We have many other interests. I like fashion, I like beauty, but I like certain kinds of fashion and beauty. I follow Collingwood for specific reasons – there's so much nuance.
Laying out people's interests showed us these interconnections. We're not just sports fans or beauty fans – we're both at the same time. This research aims to surface these interconnections across people because that's where interesting insights emerge. For some reason, there seemed to be a connection between AFL and beauty, with a few people meshing those interests together. If you don't ask those questions and only think about your industry or product silo, you miss out on understanding these unique interconnections.
It was really a way to understand people as they are, with their intersecting interests, rather than viewing them as just end consumers or an audience coming to your brand for one thing.
Andrew: This is super interesting. We're talking about interest groups being more important in defining our sense of belonging. But we are human – we contain multitudes, right? We are not one-dimensional. It's the intersection of these interests that forms much of our sense of self and belonging. It's not just one interest.
From a brand and marketing perspective, when thinking about how we associate with groups, it's important not to be one-dimensional. Saying, "Oh, our audience is really into AFL, so we're going to be the AFL supporter," this lacks depth.
Laura: Especially if you take the example of AFL, people following football code are so diverse. It's localised as a sport, so it's everyone – mums, kids, dads, cousins, grandmas, grandpas. It's a whole audience at completely different life stages who aren't just talking about football all the time.
One account that stood out to me was the Western Bulldogs and Mecca beauty. I don't think Mecca or probably the AFL would put themselves in the same category, but that's the world they are in.
Andrew: I think this is interesting too. We were just talking about how brands are trying to look like insiders, showing that they understand the dynamics of the group and adding value around bonding, provision of information, or support. By understanding these connection points, these seemingly strange but entirely relevant intersections of different interests, you get a bit deeper. In terms of providing a sense of belonging and bonding, or providing information and support, do you have any examples of interesting collaborations or unexpected connections?
Laura: A brand that does this really well is Liquid Death. They've set themselves up as the ultimate misdirection brand. Their packaging is all brash, gothic, high-energy, like an octane drink, but inside it's just, you know, sparkling water. The brand itself is very unique in how it's set up, allowing it to bring in these seemingly disparate elements of culture and surprise their audience, as well as audiences outside their current reach.
They rolled it out with interesting elements of millennial nostalgia and poked fun at the unexpected pairing of a beauty brand with their unique drinks brand.
Andrew: And it probably works to add value for members of those groups, right? Think about the role of the brand – it has to add value for the interest groups that sit around those intersections, like between metal and cosmetics. This interesting crossover feels like they're doing that here. I don't know if it's providing information, but it's certainly fostering bonding and affiliation.
Laura: It gets people's attention in the beauty space, but also resonates with existing Liquid Death fans. Additionally, it attracts attention outside of those groups because it's such an unexpected collaboration. It works like a ripple effect, in a good way.
Andrew: So, we know we join groups because we seek connection, and shared interest groups help us understand and validate ourselves, providing reassurance and access to information among other things. What do we know about this feeling of connection, and what makes us feel connected?
Laura: One of the interesting data points from the survey was about people who had posted online in the last week. We asked everyone how connected they felt to sports teams, family, friends, and a range of other categories. When we compared the responses of those who posted online in the last week to the rest of the participants, we found that the online people felt, on average, twice as connected to everything than those who didn't post.
What does this tell us? There’s so much conversation around online health and how we should manage it, but from that statistic, it's clear that the act of posting and engaging online has a ripple effect on us, both online and offline. This wasn’t just about feeling more connected to people online – it was also about feeling more connected to family, friends, and sports teams.
It's not necessarily a judgement on whether posting or lurking is good or bad – it's just a reality of the environment we find ourselves in.
They’re taking it in, contributing to it, creating conversations, and influencing others within their circles. This online engagement is making them feel more connected in general, which is an essential insight for brands looking to engage with their audience.
Andrew: Yeah, that's powerful stuff. It's interesting how the behaviour of connecting makes you feel more connected. As you mentioned, we have super connectors within that world. These people engage in the behaviour of connection more frequently than everyone else, acting as fast-flowing rivers for distributing culture, content, and a sense of belonging. These super connectors are crucial within group dynamics, especially for brands looking to play a role within an interest group or community, or at the intersection of those groups. Identifying and understanding these super connectors and supporting them is essential. Lindsey, how can brands identify and support these super connectors?
Lindsey: I’m glad you asked that question. Andrew, at TRA, we're always thinking about not just the message, but who delivers it. We focus on messengers that matter. Our team often talks about supporting the supporters or influencing the influencers. Super connected people can deliver messages more powerfully than the organisation itself because we trust these people – we know them. Getting a message from a trusted person is impactful.
Make sure you're getting the tone right so they feel comfortable delivering the message.
Consider providing earworms, sound bites, or phrases that can be easily passed along. Think about other things they can share, like friend referrals or shared friend experiences. We've seen this work across many categories and sectors, from food delivery services offering free weekly trials, to electricity providers with referral programmes, to gym classes where you can bring friends along.
In New Zealand, a successful mental health campaign targeted friends of people suffering from anxiety or depression, arming them with what to do and say to help their friends. Instead of targeting the end audience, they targeted a messenger group, equipping them with the right tools. This approach creates a ripple effect – passing something on to someone who then passes it on, and so forth.
Andrew: So, finding these super connectors, these supporters, and arming them with the right tools goes back to the two key roles of adding value in a group. You're either promoting bonding and affiliation through shared experiences or bringing others in, or you're providing information and support. The more we can equip them with resources in these areas, the more useful they'll be.
Reflecting on the point about the intersection of different groups, by understanding the deeper connections of group members and the crossover points, we can provide supporters with cultural nuggets or valuable insights. These show a deeper understanding of the lives of people in the group and enhance the value of these super connectors. This, in turn, supports their role in the group and adds to their influence.
Lindsey: And, you know, it’s not just about the group itself and what’s happening there, but also about the activities we’re passing on. That’s why I love Laura’s example of different brands collaborating. It’s really about novel experiences. Research from the tourism sector shows that novel experiences – things that are new and never done before – can drive a lot of positivity and memory. We remember what is positive and new to us. So, a brand mashup that is novel and new can create a fun, memorable experience.
Going back to the idea of the role that brands play in driving affiliation and connections, there’s also research showing that we get more joy from shared experiences. So, if brands and organisations want to thrive in this space, they should think about creating their own novel experiences or shared experiences. Whether you’re creating these experiences for people or showing up in experiences that are already happening, the key is making them shared and new for the first time.
Andrew: We're not just talking about the online world here. We're talking about, you know, the role of brand and these interest groups in the real world in terms of helping create these kind of novel and interesting experiences. Laura, where have you seen this done?
Laura: The best examples of this probably come out of the podcast world. In podcasts, we get to know people, hear their voices, and feel like part of a group. Many podcast communities have taken this beyond just their series and tours, creating merchandise, and fostering a sense of belonging. For instance, there's a podcast I listen to called "Ride," and we call ourselves "the Baronies." We're fans of the hosts and feel like a little family.
This idea is similar to concerts, which are experiencing a surge because people want that in-person experience together. When you go to a concert, you know you're among like-minded people. You're already in on the joke and the conversation. This is such a powerful shortcut to finding community and groups.
A great example is one of our co-workers, Alex, who went to the "Mamma Mia! Out Loud" podcast series. She was excited all week to see the hosts up close and experience something that was in sync and live with others who love the podcast. The podcast community and industry are fascinating for brands to look at.
Another example that Lindsey mentioned, which I love, is when brands can galvanise around a shared experience. The solar eclipse in North America last month was a mass moment that brought people together in a unique way.
Lindsey: And a novel one that doesn’t happen every day. Like, that was a very new experience for people to take part in.
Laura: How unique is that in terms of the world? You're right, Lindsey – it's a unique experience but also a mass experience at the same time. Most people celebrate it by getting together with friends or family to watch it. Warby Parker saw a great intersection with their brand. They’re known for affordable but stylish glasses, and they created a solar eclipse edition of their glasses.
People often wear bad, possibly harmful, cheap fake glasses from Amazon. Warby Parker understood this novel event and positioned their product in a way that made perfect sense. It was a moment where people were coming together, and they capitalised on that beautifully.
Andrew: So creating novel experiences where the group gets to participate in something together is another way a brand can play an insider role, adding significant value. By creating something that is not only bonding but also unique and potentially a one-off event, a brand can really stand out. For example, concerts are often a one-time experience for many people, like going to see Taylor Swift. These events galvanise the community, and a brand helping to make that happen plays a crucial role.
Let's try to bring all this together, as we're almost out of time and we've covered a lot of interesting ground. At the start of today's discussion, we said that interest groups are becoming a more important part of how we find belonging and our place in the world. Therefore, they're becoming a much more important place for brands to find connection and relevance. This means we need to understand the world of groups and group dynamics, including the in and out dynamics of a group and how to be an insider.
We discussed the role of a brand in providing value, either by promoting bonding and affiliation or by providing information and support. It's more important than ever to position the brand as part of the in-group, and understanding different groups and their intersections allows us to do this with more depth. We often talk about uncommon truths – finding the uncommon connections in our audience helps us be in the in-group in a more meaningful way than just being one-dimensional.
How we support supporters is crucial. We discussed that within groups, there are super connectors – people who, through frequent connecting, play a significant role in disseminating information, culture, and group dynamics. Identifying and supporting these super connectors is essential, and helping them promote affiliation and bonding or provide information and support is a great way for a brand to do this.
It's not just online – the most powerful role is when all of this shows up in the real world. Doing something novel and interesting that brings supporters and groups together in real life for a shared experience is where we find something super powerful in terms of the value we can deliver as a brand. The intersection of different interest groups can be unique and powerful as well.
Thank you, Laura, and thank you, Lindsey, for joining me in the studio today. It was a fascinating discussion.
Andrew: Thanks for listening to FRAME, a podcast by TRA dedicated to the art of knowing people. TRA is an insights agency, and by layering perspectives from the science of human understanding, we see what others don't – the uncommon truths.
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